IJN YAMATO and all Flags. The belt would allow the 46cm shells of the Yamato to fuse, wrecking all of the internal components. I dunno. Minor Navies WW2 Fleets and battles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------, your further statements include some more or less  inaccuracies. Go Bismarck! By the start of World War II,Bismarckwas one of the mightiest battleships in the world, owing to his advanced gun fire control system and powerful artillery. Lo. This included sinking the HMS Hermes, the first carrier to be sunk by carrier aircraft. So that makes it, 40km now. Beginners are welcome. They had an opportunity to turn a modest victory (because that was all it really was -- Hood, while a great symbol of national pride, was not exactly a first-rate combatant at that point) into a crushing one, but chose to let it slip away. It's also the only recorded time of the shell doing what it was intended to do in combat. 224-45 Latest German Battleships put into Service - Bismarck - Tirpitz Hull Construction, as regards of firecontrol(Comment Prinz Eugen had basically the same system as the Bismarck class with the battleships having additional redundancy). Historically, the Panther mainly faced M4s and T-34s where as in WoT they face T29s, T20s, etc. Honestly, I think a better debate would be: could Bismarck and Tirpitz together sink Yamato? If you think Bismark is one of the ones with an outside chance, I'd like to you post me some of the stuff you've been smoking. With a bit of luck and clever manoeuvring, he might have been able to polish off Norfolk and Suffolk too. Her main guns had overwhelming firepower. C'est pas Yamato, Iowa ou Bismarck qui les tournait aussi vite xD-Bon plugliese était tellement à peine correct que je le mentionne pas. 5. Vice Admiral Momonga5 is a Marine officer and the Base Commander of the G-1 Marine Base. This emphasis on long range fire would give Yamato a massive advantage in the opening stages of the battle, as they would be able to fire up on and perhaps even land hits on Bismarck as Bismarck tried to get Yamato within range of its own guns. While the Yamato could "see" the superstructure of the Iowa at long distance, it was totally useless for fire control. Point blank when her ROF is slightly higher? So my winner is Yamato class hands down.. Bismarck's upper belt would be its downfall. My personal opinion, Yamato and Iowa would be a good fight. Aboard Prince of Wales, Captain Leach happened to be looking at Hood: "...at the moment when a salvo arrived and it appeared to be across the ship somewhere about the mainmast. This almost comes off as a little... questionable in terms of political correctness. Yeah, if it couldn't get a damn straddle at 8000 yards I would think something was wrong as well. Yes, it didn't have that many chances, but the point still remains, it failed to achieve any main battery hits vs the Jeep carriers. simultaneous discharge of weapons. During the Battle of Denmark Strait the Bismarck only fired 91 rounds out of 13 minutes. Bismarck isn't even in the same class. World of Warships - Asia Language Based Communities ; English Speaking Community ; General Discussions ; Warship Comparison: Bismarck VS North Carolina Sign in to follow this . The only department Bismarck wins in is good looks. Lindemann screamed 'I WILL NOT HAVE MY SHIP SHOT OUT FROM UNDER MY [edited]' and gave the order himself. Which could mean any set amount. Bismarck is comparable to the North Carolina and South Dakota. In the Battle of Warships, you can improve the performance of the ship by add flags for IJN YAMATO. So unless James Cameron or Robert Ballard decide to dive it and find out themselves it will always be up in question. As for hitting the maneuvering Iowa, it would be about the same % as the Iowa due to those dispersions, and mind you, Yamato could see Iowa's superstructure at from the top ring of the funnels to the radar from 43.453km away. Before long, the Japanese begin to reply with their 18.1” guns. By Meaning an engagement at say, 15km, there is a good chance Yamato's shells would dive and possibly punch the holes under the waterline. But that shell still did damage. Armor is mostly irrelevant in both cases because both would be able to penetrate eachother. Without knowing entry speed, exit speed, duration of a 180/360 degrees turn, time until the ship reacts on the rudder, maximum heel etc a comparison may be misleading and speculative. When is comes to WWII naval warfare, the Japanese are known for their long lance torpedoes, NOT accurate long range gun fire. Hell, due to slope and effective LoS, at 15km the armor would be 456.16mm effective vs the Mark 5's 457mm of penetration. Bismarck would have to get past 37,000 yards to penetrate Yamato's deck and under 16,000 yards for Bismarck to penetrate her belt. World of Warships - téléchargez et jouez au jeu en ligne multijoueur figurant des bateaux, faites partie de la communauté WoWS EU "This turn was executed sometime between 0559-0600. We will never know. While many of Bismarck's hits to the superstructure would pass right through doing damage but doing nothing more than leaving a nice 15-18 inch hole and wrecking everything in its path but not fusing or detonating unless it hit low and maybe struck something like the secondary turrets which would fuse its shells. Yamato's shells can penetrate Bismarck's belt to 33k yards and her deck from 18k yards. For tutoring please call 856.777.0840 I am a recently retired registered nurse who helps nursing students pass their NCLEX. At what range is Bismarck a superior ship? You also ignore my main point, there is NO record of the Yamato actually hitting another ship with it main battery. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. Share this post. Wait, but that would be hard to adjust fire, so lets go with 50 feet above sealevel since we can see the tops of the secondaries and most of the bridge. Given a complete salvo beeing 8 projectiles Hood blew up at the  fifth salvo, and this was not the first hit on Hood by Bismarck. It's pretty hard to miss a target at 8000 yards, with huge 150cm search lights turned on and lighting its location up by over 12km. Before long, the Japanese begin to reply with their 18.1” guns. Especially when you take into account all the other ships that will be in the battle. Without the both of those, even those 3 vessel classes would be in serious trouble. Really... really sketchy. Yamato:1) Tighter turning circle?Uh...Looks pretty one-sided to me. Your counting does not apply for the Kriegsmarine. Well, still not in range of those Mark 7 guns. But hers guns weren't very powerful. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. Yamamoto: Japanese Naval Officer or a fashion designer. The supposed stock number is #42595. Any information involving these ships was top secret and not readily available during the war. Everything considered as vital like ammunition machinery plotting rooms main electric cabeling powerplants was situated below the main armor deck. By anonym_oll9bEiYuB07, November 3, 2015 in … Iowa would be able to choose the engagement range because of her superior speed. Bismarck — German Tier VIII battleship.. By the start of World War II, Bismarck was one of the mightiest battleships in the world, owing to her advanced gun fire control system and powerful artillery. So where did I mention "Full Gun Salvos"? What's the basis for saying something like that? The german distinguish between vital and non vital ship components. 17 best images about navi ww2 on pinterest us navy world war and imperial japanese battleship iowa image search yamato vs class post treaty battleships the inglorius padre steve #39 s uss ijn of warships official forum Bismarck Secondaries VS Yamato : World of Warships | Wows Bismarck vs Wows Yamato —————————————————————————————————————————– Today we find out just how strong the bismarcks secondaries truely are in world of warships when we put them against the yamato in a straight up 1v1. United Kingdom vs. German and Italian land-based aircraft. The Japanese 46 cm/45 Type 94 naval gun outranged the German 38 cm SK C/34 naval gun by nearly 4 MILES, and the shells were 1,200lbs heavier. Iowa can be expected to be able to hit, more effectively, more consistently, closer to it's maximum range, than Yamato. So I guess that damage doesn't count? Iowa or Yamato would not have had an easy time. Hitler wouldn't have given a fig if the planned trade sweep had been abandoned. Goddagames, June 3, 2014 in General Game Discussion. 4. At least the Iowa has the ability to hit OTH, the Yamato did not. We have a saying in the Marine Corps. Her second was slightly over with 1 shell landing to starboard and 4 shells to port making it a partial straddle. important systems receive 100% redundancy plus. The yamato is also a larger ship and makes it easier to hit, more shells being fired faster, at higher speeds, likely getting off 2 salvos for every one that the Yammy returned would mean that the Bismarck would likely do a lot better in the fight. Especially important systems receive 100% redundancy plus special emergency circuits. In that salvo there were, I think, two shots short and one over, but it may have been the other way round.". Get the latest news and developments here and play for free! Two enemy capitals sunk? That doesn't give me much confidence in the  fire control of the Yamato. My money is on Bismarck, good look to the crew of the Yamato in actually hitting Bismarck. The difference is that the Yamato has a 20 degree outward slope that would increase that effective armor against that hit. The reason, speed, accuracy, crew skill, and the desire to live. How the heck do you know? Information spun in the most favorable way possible. These ships were bigger than most light cruisers, and much slower. - The Bismarks flaw in how her citadel was armored was one of her Achilles heels. Bismarck would also be doing the same. At 20km, the inaccuracy was around 30-50m depending on day to night and weather since they had a special infrared set to use at night. Now, its hard to say how WG will balance things with the Yamato. If I recall from the thread long ago about Yamato vs Iowa there were some questions about the validity of the information about the accuracy of the Yamato's main guns. Bismarck vs. Yamato: What if Hitler's Biggest Battleship Attacked Japan's Monster Warship? That's 22.38 inches of belt armor not taking into account a slope on a belt. To be fair though, the Iowa class at maximum range had a spread around 600-800m during 40s testing. The bismarck was fast, and had accurate long-range guns. Gascogne — French premium Tier VIII battleship.. A battleship design developed on the basis of the very successful Richelieu class, which received improved AA capabilities and had the main turrets placed in the ship's aft and forward ends. The Nowaki was able to get away with only splinter damage. Fate has a funny way of leveling playing fields. Now, the Yamato in theory could fire a shell every 32 sec from the angle of 12 deg which is the angle required to fire out to 20km. The Iowa on the other hand, would win most of the time vs the Yamato. The world's largest official Facebook group for the Battle of Warships with over 17,000 members. Bismarck isn't even in the same league. Fire control was one of the Japanese ships major weaknesses. Yamato would be hard pressed to score and hits on a maneuvering Iowa. (Edit: Typo for 150cm search lights, accidentally typed 15cm). You also failed to address the abysmal Japanese gunnery results overall. Yamato's would be around 60-70m ranging inaccuracy. The problem is that I am not too good in Japanese ships. Sunken battleships are the wrecks of large capital ships built from the 1880s to the mid-20th century that were either destroyed in battle, mined, deliberately destroyed in a weapons test, or scuttled.The battleship, as the might of a nation personified in a warship, played a vital role in the prestige, diplomacy, and military strategies of 20th century nations. And at 37km, that's not an easy feat by any vessel of the time. For instance the reconstruction at HMSHood.com, http://www.hmshood.com/history/denmarkstrait/bismarck1.htm. Rugged construction — coupled with elaborate subdivision into compartments and a vast expanse of armor — ensured a high level of endurance. A spotter would be needed. not to forget the target switch past destruction of Hood, wich immediatly produced several hits on POW on succeding salvos. Reality would dictate that so many more factors would be involved that we just can't calculate and at the end of the day luck would decide the winner. Iowa would be far more likely to achieve the first hit due to her vastly superior fire control. Less important components remain in the area above the main armor deck. Unfortunately most if not all of this data was lost with the ship. German crews were superior to Japanese? Their desire to live was greater...??? The Yamato class would have had an immunity range between 16000 and 29500 meters or roughly nearly 14km. On paper Yamato would probably win. which makes it much more difficult to hit. Also, White Plains did have significant damage done to its midships from that straddle. It's dependent on the scenario that the two meet. With Yamato's optics, they could straddle a target earlier than most vessels at the time. By contrast, Yamato had a 16" belt and a NINE INCH, at maximum, deck. Not a single nation fired full salvo's in that time period to achieve a straddle. Now the only penetration values we know for certain for the vessel are the ones the US Intelligence obtained from a source in Japan for their 20km and 30km tests, as these were considered common engagement ranges for the vessels to be engaging the US Fleet. The smaller guns also have a shorter hang time in air, thus giving the yamato less time to maneuver to avoid getting hit. It appears to me that usual counting of salvoes in lecture was in agreement with the counting of the Kriegsmarine. ", Bismark v Yamato? While they had the best optics, that is only one of the components of the fire control system, the Japanese were seriously behind in the rest. Honestly, Yamato doesn't have a leg to stand on. Yamato was designed around the idea that an individual ship could have superiority over any battleship of a potential enemy. Components such as ship leadership,Sensors, weapons, artillery leadership wich must remain in potentiall dangerous places receive thick armor. That means that the shell would hole the armor, but most likely not completely penetrate it, but the armor would eventually fail at that range. In my opinion the only ship that could give the Yamato or Musashi a good fight would be a US Montana-Class BB or maybe the Iowa or South Dakota. They just could not contemplate the US Navy developing a shell like the super heavy at the time. The U.S. They had an abysmal hit rate in the Battle at Java sea, that carried on through the war. Wait, that's more than max range than the Iowa! Additionally ships usually lose considerable speed when turning at hard rudder. Over time, the Frenc designed just before the revolution their own 38-guns, 18-pounder version, while the British responded by mass-producing three models, a very large 38-guns, the standard 36-guns and the cost-saving 32-guns. Why? Which means the Yamato can view from her FCS Optics the Iowa's main turrets, secondaries, bridge, and superstructure but not the hull line, that's enough to range a target and put shells down range. She sank the world's largest battlecruiser, HMS Hood in the of the Denmark Strait, the wars' only equal engagement of large battleships (Bismarck and Prinz Eugen vs HMS Hood and Prince of Wales). probably the Yamato but how do we know when the Bismarck isnt in game yet. Thank you for your explantion of counting of salvoes. The German squadron has a three-knot speed advantage, which it uses to try to pull away from the Japanese and avoid the engagement. Invite you to the world's largest Official Facebook group. Iowa would be able to maneuver better while firing because she'd be able to maintain a firing solution while maneuvering. Rugged construction — coupled with elaborate subdivision into compartments and a vast expanse of armor — ensured a high level of endurance. You may read through several analysis, wich all came to the same conclusion, that the fatal hit occured at Bismarcks salvo No 5. Even in that situation, which could be considered "ideal" they fired over 100 rounds for 12 hits. However, unlike in real life, Yamato will actually have to contend with ships that were at least comparable. That also includes near misses from bombs if it did damage, that damage was still obtained, even if not at the amount desired, it's still a hit. The Yamato's crews would have been trained to open fire from as long a range as possible and use directions from spotter aircraft to walk the fire onto the target. Im sorry your math regarding Bismarck is wrong, Bismarck started firing with so called Gabelgruppen (4 projectiles from 2 turrets) with artifical increased spread (1 turret  firing at the calculated range and the second calculated Rang + 400 m) the second Gabelgruppe straddled the target (one turret firing a salvo at the corrected range and  and the other at -400 m). The Super Yamoto would crush it, no question. By contrast, Yamato had a 16" belt and a NINE INCH, at maximum, deck. USS White Plains had to go in for complete drydock and repairs due to all the damage that was done just from 1 near miss, including flooding, warping of its outer-bulkheads and damage to its deck. Her first salvo over shot and nearly struck St. Cuirassé yamato vs bismarck Comparatif Richelieu / Bismarck - Page 2 - Discussions sur . 325K 7.1K 200. Wait, Paladin, did you ****ing seriously just use Washington's battle vs Kirishima to talk about getting a "Straddle"? Yamato’s 18.1-inch guns were the largest ever mounted on a warship. Note there has been an announcement by Aoshima of a newly tooled Bismarck to replace the above kit sometime in April of 2008. When you start talking about crew traits with regards to the Japanese vs. Germans or versus anyone else, and begin labeling one group of people with equal training and just as legendary a sea culture as inferior... no idea where those concepts are coming from, I guess. We have to remember that after loading the shells (which happens at a fixed angle, usually 5 degrees), the guns would have to be raised to the proper elevation. The Bismark was at best an avg battleship out classed by most of the BB's built after the treaty expired. By The only difference was the Japanese one was far more resistant to shock. And again, the fact that Iowa WOULD be able to hit Yamato at ranges that Yamato would not have been able to effectively reply is a big one here. You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section. Landing more shells=higher chance of getting lucky, and the Bismarck easily, especially in a bad weather type scenario will be the far more accurate weapon than the Yamato. 08-11-2020 1/350 Russian cruiser Askold (Combrig) by Spyros Stroboulas . It's one thing to debate technical merits (within which, I believe, Yamato crushes Bismarck with ease. Also mind you, it took Bismarck around 8 salvo's to straddle Hood, it took Yamato 2 salvos to straddle White Plains at 37-36km. I have been a nurse since 1997. However, I believe(may be wrong) that the Bismarck's guns were designed to have a relatively small shell arc a.k.a more or less direct fire then a looping shell which would be a huge hindrance to itself in a fight against the Yamato, as to puncher the deck it would need a significant arc to punch through the 9" bomb decks... Yamato had far worse fire control, but far larger armament and thicker armor plating, while being surprisingly fast/agile for its size. The difference is that the Yamato has a 20 degree outward slope that would increase that effective armor against that hit. Their plotting rooms were too manpower intensive, and over long battles, crew fatigue would cause plotting errors and inaccuracies. Yamato would win and I don't think it would be close, either. The Yamato had an insanely small turning radius. Bismarck opens fire on Yamato and Tirpitz on Musashi, with Bismarck scoring an early hit on the Japanese flagship. Yamato's turrets are impenetrable to the German 15" shell, and Yamato's shells can penetrate Bismarcks turrets at any range. I agree it didn't land it on the deck or the belt and get a penetration on it. Despite being at the same tier as Tirpitz, Odin is better compared to Tier VII Scharnhorst due to their characteristics compared to same tier opponents.. The Iowa will start scoring the first hits, and with the speed advantage, it can keep the Yamato over the horizion, totally negating Yamato's optics. She'd be almost completely helpless as Iowa tore her apart with accurate fire with 2,700lb superheavy AP at ranges that Yamato would have an extremely difficult time replying. Although large and capable of absorbing enormous battle damage, Bismarck and Tirpitz simply did not compare favorably with any other navy’s fast battleships. Bombs from the Dauntless sank all four of the Japanese carriers lost at Midway. This is based on your superior knowledge of the subject I take it? We also already debunked that "over the horizon" crap with Iowa in the old thread so you can take that one to the recycling bin. Characteristics of all models are realistically reproduced on the basis of technical elements of warships and aircraft from the first half of the 20th century. Lutjens never even gave the order to fire on Hood, despite the fact that the sea was full of 14/15' shell splashes at the time. Most information of a sensitive nature was destroyed either on purpose or due to the constant bombing of Japanese military facilities in the final days of the war. Yamato’s 18.1-inch guns were the largest ever mounted on a warship. As to the Bismark vs Yamato, the Bismark is too old of a design to be able to stand up to the Yamato 1 on 1. azurlane azur lane ironblood royalnavy sakuraempire eagleunion shipgirls warship entreprise malereader harem navy battleship bismarck belfast war akagi ... Azur Lane:The Anomaly by Aleon Arc. most people wouldn't know the name Bismark if the RN hadn't had a hart attack at the sinking of Hood. ...German shells were in semi-casing..can be reached by diving projectiles, shells were stacked without casing on the middle platform deck. Even the German fanboys agreed that the Bismarck did not stand a chance vs the Yamato based on its design. But from what I read it is somewhat fragile. Absolute legend. To be fair though Bismarck achieved an 85% salvo rating vs PoW's 70% so, PoW wasn't having a good time with it. It can Tank bismarks  fire could bismark tank even Lion class battleships? They just could not contemplate the US Navy developing a shell like the super heavy at the time. Or at max range when her shells might theoretically penetrate Yamato's decks, but which would place her at an enormous disadvantage from Yamato's dramatically more deadly plunging fire? With their speed advantage gone, the Germans find themselves in a slugging match with far larger, more heavily armored opponents. Its second, fell directly between Hood and Prince of Wales. UNLESS a round hit near that superstructure, they would have no clue as to it being long or short. All results of german ballistic tests were collected by Krupp in a penetration textbook called Durchschlagatlas. The effective range is the distance at which you can effectively be expected to hit something, and Yamato's firecontrol is not even in the same class as Iowa's. And Iowa, being faster, would never allow Yamato to get into a range where she could be effective. But turning circle of some ships was relatively little dependent on starting speed. If the US Navy was stuck using the Mark 5 AP shell for their guns. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The Bismarck would win in a one on one dual. At 35,000 yards, the Iowa and New Jersey were able to straddle the destroyer Nowaki moving at 38 knots ON the first salvo, and every salvo after that. The calculations yourself their desire to live was greater...????! Miss a hit if it does damage to the North Atlantic the Bismarck fire. 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